Kathryn Ruemmler, formerly Goldman Sachs’s general counsel and chief legal officer, testified before the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday that during the six years she knew Jeffrey Epstein, she never witnessed “any evidence suggesting that he was abusing women or girls.” However, she acknowledged that she came to see Epstein as a “masterful liar” who used his relationships with prominent individuals to bolster his reputation.

Ruemmler, who resigned from Goldman Sachs earlier this year amid revelations about her extensive and personal interactions with Epstein, described a relationship that began in 2014 after she left her role as White House counsel under President Obama. She told the committee her initial perception of Epstein was shaped by his openness about his 2008 conviction for soliciting sex from a minor, which she learned about only after they met. At that time, she said, Epstein expressed remorse and appeared truthful in discussing the past allegations.

Despite this, the Justice Department’s release of emails revealed Ruemmler’s informal and sometimes irreverent exchanges with Epstein, including instances where she called him “sweetie” and provided him with legal advice on managing inquiries related to his prior conviction. She admitted to accepting gifts from Epstein and socializing with him, but maintained she was unaware of the full scope of his abuse until his arrest on federal sex-trafficking charges in July 2019, which she described as “shocking.”

During the hearing, Representative Robert Garcia, the committee’s top Democrat, expressed skepticism about Ruemmler’s account, noting that she appeared to have been familiar with Epstein’s 2008 conviction yet continued to engage with him socially over the years. Ruemmler confirmed that she ceased contact with Epstein following his arrest; he died by suicide in federal custody a month later.

Ruemmler also addressed her role in advising Epstein on the 2008 nonprosecution agreement negotiated by federal prosecutors in Florida, stating that her legal background initially led her to view the outcome as a reasonable resolution. She admitted, however, that the deal was “deeply flawed” in light of the broader conduct later revealed.

The relationship between Ruemmler and Epstein extended into her professional work as well. The testimony detailed how Epstein had referred a banking client to Ruemmler, which led to her involvement with Edmond de Rothschild Holding, a Swiss bank. Documents released by the Justice Department show Ruemmler confirming Epstein’s consulting role for the bank in 2015, the same year its head, Ariane de Rothschild, signed a $25 million contract with Epstein. Ariane de Rothschild and Epstein were reportedly friends and social acquaintances.

Ruemmler’s association with Epstein has drawn significant attention due to her high-profile status on Wall Street and her $25 million annual compensation package at Goldman Sachs. Although initially supported by Goldman CEO David Solomon, internal unease about her continued presence led to her resignation from the general counsel role in February. She has since remained with the bank as a paid consultant during the search for her successor.

The House Oversight Committee continues its broader inquiry into Epstein’s network of associates and the Justice Department’s handling of the investigations into his sex-trafficking operations. In addition to Ruemmler, the panel has questioned figures including former President Bill Clinton, retail magnate Leslie Wexner, and billionaire Bill Gates. Upcoming sessions will include testimony from James Staley, a JPMorgan Chase executive known to have been Epstein’s banking contact. Earlier this year, private equity investor Leon Black appeared before the committee but declined to answer questions related to nondisclosure agreements with women linked to Epstein’s activities.